ShapeShift: “Bitcoin gave up on being the engine during the block wars”

The Cryptonomist had the pleasure of interviewing Houston Payne, Head of Growth and Business Development at ShapeShift. Below is the exclusive interview.

1. “Bitcoin is the store of value, but Ethereum is the engine.” Can you expand on what you mean by that, and why Ethereum’s utility makes it uniquely positioned for growth?

Bitcoin’s strength is its simplicity — it’s digital gold. Its value comes from security, scarcity, and neutrality. But Bitcoin also gave up on being the engine during the block wars, when it chose to limit block size and focus on being a settlement layer rather than a platform for experimentation.

Ethereum, by contrast, is programmable money. It powers everything from DeFi and NFTs to DAOs and layer-2 scaling. Its utility lies in enabling ecosystems and real-world use cases. That’s why I call it the engine — it drives innovation in ways BTC doesn’t aim to.

Looking forward, that engine role will only expand. Ethereum-based L2s are making the network more accessible than ever, and we’re already seeing the beginnings of real-world assets — stocks, bonds, even Web2 businesses — being tokenized and brought onchain. The tech world may experiment with countless new chains, but when traditional finance finally makes the leap, the safe bet is they’ll do it the Ethereum way. That’s where the next wave of growth will come from.

2. As adoption shifts from simply holding assets to actually using them, where do you see the strongest drivers of real-world demand for Ethereum today?

The biggest drivers right now are in decentralized finance and stablecoins. People are moving beyond speculation and into practical use — earning yield, accessing credit, or sending remittances onchain. But the real-world demand comes from something even simpler: crypto solves the functional lapses of traditional finance.

I’ve had friends ask me, “Why are banks closed on weekends? Why does it take three days to clear my money?” And then they set up an Ethereum wallet because it lets them move money instantly — anytime, 24/7, 365 days a year. With today’s tech, you can go from a DeFi position in Aave to paying your electricity bill in minutes. Your money is always working for you, not locked away behind banking hours.

That’s the real driver of adoption: Ethereum makes global, instant, permissionless finance a reality. It’s not just for crypto Twitter — it’s solving everyday frictions that people everywhere experience.

3. Bitcoin has always been seen as the entry point for most newcomers. Do you think Ethereum is now stepping out of Bitcoin’s shadow, and if so, what milestones mark that transition?

I’d actually push back on the idea that Bitcoin has always been the entry point. It’s the oldest, and yes, people are drawn to the soundness of its money — the simplicity of a fixed supply, its stability compared to inflationary currencies, and of course the “number go up” effect that comes with wider adoption. But for many newcomers, Bitcoin has felt more like a starting symbol than a true entry point.

Ethereum is where people often stay. It’s programmable money — more interactive, more experimental, and more fun. DAOs, DeFi, NFTs — these are the experiences that pulled people deeper into the ecosystem and showed that crypto is more than just an asset you hold.

The real milestone that marked Ethereum stepping into its own was the rise of layer-2s. In 2021, paying $100 for a single transaction was the norm, and that was hardly accessible. Rollups changed that. Suddenly, microtransactions and everyday use became viable, and Ethereum shifted from being a network for developers to one that everyday users could actually afford to use.

So I’d continue to challenge the premise: Bitcoin may have been the first thing people noticed, but Ethereum is what kept them engaged — and that’s where the real culture and innovation have taken root.

4. ShapeShift has been part of the industry since the very beginning. What lessons from past crypto cycles are most relevant now, as we face another wave of institutional and retail interest?

One of the biggest lessons is that trust can’t be outsourced — code is stronger than promises. Every cycle, we’ve watched centralized platforms rise quickly and then collapse just as quickly. The most glaring example is FTX. They came out of nowhere, raised billions, spent aggressively on marketing, promised the world — and then imploded because customer funds were abused. It’s a reminder that hype and slick branding are no substitute for transparency and self-custody.

That doesn’t mean you should ignore new innovations, but you should approach them with caution. The projects that endure are the ones that are open, decentralized, and have weathered multiple cycles. ShapeShift, Aave, Yearn — these platforms have proven staying power because they’ve been through ups and downs without compromising user trust.

Another lesson is that hype always comes before sustainable adoption. The projects that last are usually the ones that grow “low and slow” — iterating steadily, earning user trust over time. That staying power is more telling than any bull-market spike.

Finally, there’s the human side: do your own research. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. But when you combine caution with curiosity, you realize the real breakthroughs come from many minds working in the open. The transparent, collective nature of this space is what ultimately makes it stronger and safer with each cycle.

5. ShapeShift’s transformation into a DAO was one of the boldest moves by a long-standing crypto company. What have been the biggest challenges and benefits of operating as a DAO compared to the traditional model?

The biggest challenge is that there are no shortcuts. In a DAO, every problem has to be solved in a decentralized, permissionless way. That takes more coordination because you can’t just impose top-down decisions — you need transparent processes and collective agreement.

And the truth is, DAOs can move slowly. It can feel like herding cats — people across different time zones, different languages, different levels of anonymity, and different perspectives all trying to reach consensus. Keeping people engaged, making sure everyone feels heard, and sorting through all the feedback is a full-time job in itself. In a traditional company, you can just say “we’re building this, here’s the decision.” In a DAO, it’s more complex — but that’s also where the resilience comes from.

Data is another challenge. In a traditional company, you’d have full access to user analytics and customer funnels. In a DAO, you have to find ways to make good product and marketing decisions while still respecting user privacy and relying heavily on onchain metrics. That’s a different business model entirely — we’re functionally an onchain collective that depends on blockchain data to understand behavior, adoption, and growth. It forces us to get creative and think differently about how we measure success.

At the same time, the benefits are enormous. Because we’re a DAO, our community doesn’t just use ShapeShift — they help shape it. We’re obsessed with our users, and that includes whales and newcomers alike. Sometimes our biggest traders are also our most valuable contributors. We’ve had a user come in, move $10 million through the platform, and then immediately give us direct feedback like, “Hey, this button should work differently” or “I wish the swapper did X.” That feedback was taken seriously and resulted in changes that improved the overall product. In that moment, that user became a builder of ShapeShift. That kind of low-barrier, high-impact collaboration simply wouldn’t happen in a traditional, centralized model.

And then there’s the global talent piece. I get to work with some of the brightest minds across time zones and backgrounds — people who might never have been hired through traditional filters but now contribute meaningfully. That diversity of perspective and ownership makes the DAO stronger, more resilient, and more innovative than a closed structure ever could.

6. Looking ahead, what role do you see decentralized organizations like ShapeShift DAO playing in bridging the gap between self-custody, DeFi, and mainstream adoption?

Being in a DAO inherently requires self-custody — you can’t participate without it. ShapeShift takes that further by giving users self-custodial mobile access through our iOS app, Android app, and even our Solana Seeker app. Mobile usage is accelerating, and putting DeFi access into people’s pockets is one of the most powerful ways to bridge mainstream adoption.

What makes ShapeShift unique is that we’re not just a DAO — we’re also a DeFi aggregator. Users can hold funds in the ShapeShift wallet, trade across chains, interact with their favorite DeFi protocols, or even discover new ones through features like our Markets page. That discovery layer matters, because if you’re not living in this space 24/7, it’s hard to know what to trust or where to connect your wallet. ShapeShift simplifies that by surfacing what’s relevant and reliable without requiring users to hunt for it themselves.

We’re also a meta-aggregator of swappers. Most people don’t know every DEX, router, or protocol that pops up week to week — nor should they have to. ShapeShift integrates the best routes, the latest swappers, and the most competitive rates into a single interface. That not only keeps us always relevant, it also removes attack vectors by letting users interact with multiple protocols in one secure place.

In short, ShapeShift lowers the barrier to entry for self-custody and DeFi. We make it easy, safe, and intuitive for users to step into the ecosystem — and that’s what bridges the gap toward true mainstream adoption.

7. If you had to look 5 years into the future, what does the balance between Bitcoin and Ethereum look like — and where do you see ShapeShift DAO fitting into that picture?

Bitcoin will continue to anchor itself as the dominant store of value, while Ethereum expands as the economic engine of decentralized finance. At ShapeShift, we already live at that intersection. The DAO has even begun accumulating both Bitcoin and Ethereum directly through its multi-sigs — almost one full Bitcoin today — all held in a decentralized, non-custodial manner by the community itself. That ownership matters because it reflects how seriously we treat these assets and their role in shaping the future.

ShapeShift has always been multichain-first. We aggregate routes between Bitcoin and Ethereum to give users the best pricing, speed, and execution — whether that’s mainnet or layer-2s. Those swaps are some of the most popular on our platform today, and we see that trend only accelerating.

Our role is simple: ShapeShift DAO is the premier way to manage Bitcoin and Ethereum side by side in one self-custodial wallet. If you’re bullish on Ethereum today and Bitcoin tomorrow, you can move between them seamlessly — always in your control, without custodians. Over the next five years, we’ll keep doubling down on that simplicity, making ShapeShift the easiest and safest place for users to engage with both assets as the multichain economy matures.

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